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Ads Playing when I don't have partnership

dreamcrushaadreamcrushaa Member
in Other
I just noticed that ads are playing as soon as someone comes to my stream. This used to not happen. I don't have a partnership yet so why are ads being played.

Comments

  • dailyblinkdailyblink Member
    I am also here to report this happening across the site, has there been any public announcement about this change? Are streamers going to earn revenue from this?
  • dreamcrushaadreamcrushaa Member
    I agree we should earn revenue from this. Or at least make us partners.
  • dailyblinkdailyblink Member
    I don't know if the solution is to start automatically making everyone partners. You will instantly see a glut of low-quality content if the threshold for making revenue is literally at the bottom of the range of effort seen put into streaming on Twitch.

    I sent a tweet to Ernest Le and he responded, "There have always been ads on non-partnered channels. The amount was much less than the past day or so." If this is the case, I'm still extremely disappointed, considering I can't remember ever seeing one before and the rate at which it's happening now is FAR higher and enough to cause everyone to believe that this is a brand new phenomenon. This would be at least the second major change in as many months to effect streamers across the board without warning them that it was in the works (the other being the redesign that make extremely questionable design decisions and broke the customization of many sites, including IGN and Day9). I know multiple streamers that have worked their asses off with the goal of attaining partnership, only to now have ads *not* supporting them playing at a high rate without their blessing. I forsee many unhappy people over this issue, streamers and viewers alike. 

    When a website offers a free service, the consumers of that service are in reality a part of the product package being offered to the true customer (read: Advertising publishers). However, I bristle whenever that pecking order becomes incredibly blatant and the people helping generate revenue aren't given any window into what's incoming for them and their presence on Twitch. The staff really owes it to step up their game on the communication front and not give off the 'take it or leave it' attitude that I *know* is not their true feeling on the matter.

    Is there going to be any more info on this? Will we see a change in policy on partnership or revenue sharing? Are partnership revenues going to see a dip as advertising fill rates are now spread over more of the site to people not getting *any* cut for their efforts?
    Post edited by dailyblink on
  • dailyblinkdailyblink Member
    Also, as someone pointed out, Ernest Le's tweet says, "There have always been ads on non-partnered channels." While true, it's our believe that those ads were relegated to previously recorded content only, *not* livestreams. Can anyone else confirm?
    Post edited by dailyblink on
  • FuzzyOtterBallsFuzzyOtterBalls Administrator
    Video advertisements in the absence of a partner program are standard across our competition. In the clearest example, Livestream.com has no partner program and runs pre-rolls on everything. Twitch deviates from this so we can ensure our partners receive as high a fill rate as possible. They get the ads first, and if there's any left over, we run it on non-partnered channels.

    There has always been a chance to see video advertisements on non-partnered channels when we're oversold on inventory. Higher than normal frequency means we're more oversold. This tends to happen near the end of the month because agency ad budgets are monthly, so they burn off their balances by increasing their buys. Our sales team commits to filling a certain number of impressions and failure to deliver those impressions results in lower advertising spends in the future.

    To answer your question, we do not plan on lowering entrance requirements for the partner program.
  • deevoseedeevosee Member
    Took me a while to find this answer, but thank you fuzzyotterballs ಠ_ಠ for the response!
  • elvinemodelvinemod Member
    Would it not help if they gave partner to people who stream everyday with 100 viewers for 10+ hrs than someone who streams for 5 hours with 1800? I've been streaming on average 10 hours a day for the past 3 months with my viewer base growing and never saw an ad till 2 days ago.
    Post edited by elvinemod on
  • softman25softman25 Member
    I have been streaming and watching streams for approx. 7-8 months now, and have NEVER seen a single ad on a channel that wasn't partnered...until yesterday

    Seriously twitch, this whole "we're oversold" doesn't wash...Also, just because everyone else does them, doesn't mean you should, it's part of the reason I stream here, and not at one of the "competition's" websites.

    And seriously, you're going to put ads on my channel and not pay me, while partners do get paid? Sorry, it's poor form from you, I'd expect this from other sites, but not you.

    Now I'm not saying I don't understand, so please don't just explain it to me, but just because I understand the situation, doesn't mean I have to like it. Also, I agree totally with deevosee, thank you for a response.
    Post edited by softman25 on
  • FireFire Moderator
    @softman25 if I didn't understand how the ad system worked I'd call bogus on the oversold bit too, but in my reporting broken ads and stuff I've learned quite a bit about the ad system. The reason why you've never seen it before it because they're very rarely oversold
  • eluniareluniar Member
    I don't like it, and I know others don't like it, but I think it's more just because it took so many people by surprise. I understand why it is happening, and I don't think twitch needs to constantly update everyone who streams with their ad information, but simply making streamers aware of the fact that this CAN happen at times (maybe a little blurb in the settings? Or something) would probably go a long way for making people less confused / upset about it. If it was in the service agreement I don't see it ... 
    http://www.twitch.tv/user/terms_of_service
  • FuzzyOtterBallsFuzzyOtterBalls Administrator
    @Softman25: you're in Australia, a country with a comparatively underdeveloped online advertising ecosystem. It doesn't surprise me we're not usually oversold there.

    If you're not familiar with advertising seasonality, there's a very good post written by our COO here:

    The takeaway is ad buys increase cyclically throughout the month, throughout the quarter, and throughout the year. End of Q1 (March) saw significant improvement from start of Q1 and also from start of March. Q2 (the end of June in particular) has been spectacular thanks to our sales team at CBS. The reason you've never seen it with such high frequency is because, quite simply, ad fill has never been better.

    Non-partnered broadcasters get free access to our platform. In exchange, we serve ads on their content because bandwidth isn't free. That seems fair to me. We don't claim that ads aren't shown on non-partnered channels because we've always run them if the fill is available (we just prioritize on our partnered channels). To completely exclude a sizable portion of our video inventory from being filled by advertisements would be idiotic. Ads keep the servers running. Without advertisements, there is no Twitch.
  • iruparazzoiruparazzo Member
    I'm not sure I buy the overflow hypothesis. I'm calling glitch on this one, because I'm getting ads in my Dashboard Preview when I'm not even streaming. They are also excessively loud - thank you for the shock and startle of playing a loud ad in my dashboard preview, while I am not streaming and the dashboard window is in the background -.-
  • FuzzyOtterBallsFuzzyOtterBalls Administrator
    That's not a glitch. Your dashboard preview is an embed, and will behave no different than our normal player. It's expected behavior; you probably aren't used to it because your channel is unpartnered and ads don't usually play.

    I understand the increase in frequency was rather abrupt, but that's what happens when we're already close to filled and a big order comes in on top of that. It's not gradual, as ad buys have a hard start and end date. Since all the main partnered inventory has been sold, the majority of the "overselling" is absorbed by the non-partner channels. It's not a hypothesis. There's nothing to "buy" because, whether you choose to believe it or not, it's the reality.
  • softman25softman25 Member
    Full kudos should be given to twitch for this response.

    Instead of just leaving us flaying in the water without a clue what was going on, a professional and articulate response has been made.

    Secondly, thank you for the explanation. I didn't really need it, because I do understand (as I said in my first post) but it still shows care, and that really is points in my book.

    I admit I went a little too far, I was a little miffed with the whole thing, having a bad day, sorry about that. :S

    Anyway, that's my 18c...
  • crashthefacecrashtheface Member
    Bottom Line. If I am not a partner with twitch. Advertisements should not be on my stream. 

    I am extremely disappointed.

    If advertisements are to be run on streams that are not endowed with partnership the option to link our adsense accounts should be made available.
    Post edited by crashtheface on
  • FireFire Moderator
    @crashtheface You're using a free service, utilizing Twitch's infrastructure without paying a cent. Why are you entitled to be paid for using it?
    Post edited by Fire on
  • crashthefacecrashtheface Member
    I use plenty of free services and infrastructures without being subject to advertisements.  If the goal of having a partnership and running advertisements is to make not just twitch a few dollars from your channel, but also to put a minute amount of money in your pocket as well from advertisement then why are our channels being bombarded with advertisements now.  If you don't have the ad space [partner channels] don't over sell.  We shouldn't have to take a hit [advertisements on our streams without compensation] if your PR department up sells ad space, it's simply bad business.  I'm sure that when these advertisements are sold their is some sort of agreement that there will be x amount of viewers seeing an advertisement each time it is run [ie concurrent viewer requirements for advertisements.]  It is simply bad business to be up selling advertisements and to run them on channels with significantly lower concurrent viewer accounts.  I also understand that twitch.tv is an offshoot of justin.tv.  Now when you visit justin.tv you are instantly greeted with advertisements which is cool, I in fact applaud them for their ad runs on the mother site.  However  on twitch.tv which is probably a large part of j.tv's budget and is probably 100% funded by ads on partner streams and on j.tv  You have the comfort as a viewer and non partner streamer to know that your streams are not being bombarded WITH OUT CONTROL in the streams.  I can safetly garuntee that the income in part from the partnerships and j.tv's advertising is sufficient enough to fit their monetary needs for operation.  Now interms of using free infrastructure and services and making monetary value from these services is completely legitimate.  I do not pay a cent for some video hosting sites yet I am able to use targeting advertisements to supplement my monetary income although it is no significant it makes me comfortable know that my ad clicks and the ads I click are going into someones pocket.

    I think of it working along the same lines of how karma works.

    Anyways that is simply how I feel,  I can go further into my explanation if you wish, however I'm not the best at putting my thoughts and ideas into writing.  I hope that what I have written can be ingested and my thoughts and feeling portrayed properly.

    I'm actually extremely interested in this discussion, as an advertising & PR professional myself these issues can be excellent learning tools not just for the sites but also for my own career.

    please share any thoughts or criticisms you have with me, as I completely look forward to furthering this discussion.
    @crashtheface You're using a free service, utilizing Twitch's infrastructure without paying a cent. Why are you entitled to be paid for using it?

    Post edited by crashtheface on
  • FuzzyOtterBallsFuzzyOtterBalls Administrator
    I'm sure that when these advertisements are sold their is some sort of agreement that there will be x amount of viewers seeing an advertisement each time it is run [ie concurrent viewer requirements for advertisements.]
    No, much like the vast majority of the Internet, our video ads are sold on an impression basis.
    I can safetly garuntee that the income in part from the partnerships and j.tv's advertising is sufficient enough to fit their monetary needs for operation.
    Not only is this pure speculation on your part, it implies we as a company should only seek to break even, which is ludicrous. We've invested countless man-hours into building a viable platform and attracting broadcasters with the goal of selling ads. A non-partnered stream uses the same pool of resources as a partnered stream, so to completely exclude them from ad display is a terrible strategy. Why would we commit to operating at a loss on a sizable portion of our inventory?

    It appears you're slightly confused about ad sales, and part of that is possibly my fault for simplifying the reality of how we handle ad inventory. You think our ad inventory doesn't include non-partnered content, and that is simply not the case. The partnered content is prioritized for ad fill, but anything on top of that is played on non-partnered channels as it's still viable inventory. It's not really "overselling" (I was just using that as shorthand to explain why it "spills over"), since we still have a fairly large pool of unfilled opportunities outside the partner inventory.
    Post edited by FuzzyOtterBalls on
  • lunaras13lunaras13 Member
    fuzzyotterballs in a  thread u closed and said continue discussion here u mentioned u dont have plans to lower entrance requirements for partnership, as someone who is working hard to reach that status may i suggest a "Jr Partnership" program. We get 1-2k views a month and then we get the option to run overflow ads on our stream when we choose. We don't profit off the ads in like you sending us money but lets say we made $5 off ads so far, we can trade in that $5 credit for a week of having high quality option in our video streaming, we trade in 10$ credit to have a little promotion for a day. stuff like that would help you with the overflow, and help us get more followers and eventually becoming a full partner.


    on a side note, i remember when i started streaming i had way more ads on my vids, annoying as hell to try and edit stuff but i got over it because it's a free service... the fact that i now know the ads can get all used up actually makes me happy
    Post edited by lunaras13 on
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